Hello and welcome back to the EMDR Doctor podcast. I'm Dr. Caroline Lloyd, and I am very excited today because I have a guest with me, a very special guest who I met in December, 2023, who has a really special story to share with us. So, I have had a few people asking me if, if I can have guests on, on the podcast, so it's really just such a delight to welcome Sharon.
Thank you so much for coming along. Sharon, would you like to start by introducing yourself and telling us a little bit about you? Oh, I'd be happy to. And it's so nice to see you again, Caroline. And I just think back to that time, and it's just an experience that changed my life and I'm so passionate about what you do.
I'm Sharon. I'm 56. I've led a really interesting life. I've lived overseas, both in Osaka and Shanghai. And 11 years ago, breast cancer came to call and, it was an experience that understandably rocked my world. And, yeah, I would say changed everything. it really stripped my identity and made me really face a lot of events from my childhood, and my life and how I move through life.
And yeah, I just really had to face that head on. Um, so it's really interesting, isn't it? How traumas that present in our, in our present time can really just echo with things that have happened to us in our past and bring up all of those old traumas. Yeah, I think for a lot of my life I sort of traveled through life, knowing that my childhood was a very difficult one and very chaotic and filled with a lot of conflict but just thought that's the way it was and there was nothing I could do about it. But then something as monumental as breast cancer comes along and, and really does shift your world. Mm, it it's, you know, it's strips you down to what's really matters and. And who am I is a big question that came out of that.
Mm. So when I first met you at Cabrini Women's Mental Health Center in Elsternwick, you weren't in a great place. No, it was probably the lowest point of my life, I would have to say. Mm-hmm. Uh, up until that point, a lot of my journey had been self-led, my healing journey, um, through books and podcasts and, you know, a lot of holistic practices as well.
you know, so I had a lot of awareness, and a lot of, help from different people on my healing journey, but something happened in late 2023 and it sort of came out of nowhere. And yeah, I just went really, really low and I couldn't find my way out. This time, I really needed professional help and through my therapist I was recommended your service and, although I had a lot of resistance, as you know, I really resisted that two weeks stay.
Mm-hmm. Um, that can be really hard for a lot of women to actually make that dive into, you know, coming in to being an in inpatient
Yeah. It's, it is, I think it's hard to make that decision to, when you are just so low in how you feel and, you know, just making the simplest decisions in those situations is so difficult that that decision felt just too big for me and, very unknown and scary.
You know, I just thought of me feeling trapped in this place and, and you know, how did it get to this point?
Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I think sometimes we still kind of have echoes of, you know, one flew over the Cuckoo's nest. Yeah, for sure. We think, oh my God, are there, are there bars on the windows? Will I ever be able to come out again?
Yeah. So what was different about Cabrini? How did you, how did you settle in there? Like, what did you find when you went into Cabrini? Well, um, after you all, uh, alleviated all of my fears, which I thank you for, I think from then on, once I'd made that decision in typical Sharon style, is I set my intention that if I'm going to do this, I'm going to give it a hundred percent.
So I was nervous. When I walked in, I felt really out of place. And, yeah, but it, it didn't last long. Um, pretty quickly I just sort of leaned into to the experience and. Yeah. Just in my little quiet way, I just sussed out the mm-hmm. The surroundings and the people and um, and then it kind of dawned on me that we're all in here because, you know, we need help. Yeah. And we need a support and we need a way through a difficult Yeah. Period of our lives. Yeah. So, yeah, once the first day was over, I was, uh, you know, I hit the ground running, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I have to say to our listeners, like, Sharon is someone who, who does hit the ground running, you, you have a great commitment to whatever it is that you are doing at the time.
And if that's healing, then you will explore every avenue, every book, read every listen to every podcast. And, and that's something so beautiful about you that you do really embrace that journey that you're on. Oh, a hundred percent. And this, this was the most important journey of my life, but I think I've always had a really curious nature, the ultimate experimenter and researcher, that, you know.
I dive right in sometimes down rabbit holes I shouldn't bother. But this one was important and I just grabbed on. Of course, there's always that discernment along with all the books you read and podcasts you listen to, but and then there's also those intuitive nudges that tell you're on your right track.
But, But yeah, I, I was very self-led, but in this situation, there was nothing I could do. Mm-hmm. I felt very helpless. Yeah. And so you'd, you'd had a fair bit of therapy beforehand. you hadn't had EMDR before you met me. Uh, what, what happened with EMDR? What, what was your experience of EMDR like?
wow, where do I start? It was just so incredible. I had read about EMDR in a book, so I kind of had an inkling about what it was, but, experiencing it was something completely different. Like I said, I went in that first session and I think my first session was around breast cancer. That was my big one, or what I thought was my big one at the time.
Mm-hmm. Ended up not being my big one, which was very interesting. Which is interesting. Um, but yeah, I, I sort of thought, well, you know, let's just do this a hundred percent, and I was just really blown away by the process of. The simple process really when you look at it, of holding a visual memory. And I'm very visual when I'm me.
My memories are visual. I could literally put myself back there and the emotions would be there. but yeah, focusing on that one. Moment of the, the actual diagnosis of breast cancer, which was stuck in my, my head. Mm-hmm. They do get stuck. Those images, those memories. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And just, um, as you started the first sort of part of the session, you know, obviously a lot of emotion was brought up and, I, I allowed myself to let it out. and I felt so safe and supported, so I thank you for that. Then as we stopped and went on to each of the next few sessions, some really strange things happened in my brain. I can't really describe it other than it was like. It was pinging to different places in my brain.
It was like this jigsaw puzzle coming together. Mm-hmm. And it was relating that event to other things. Yeah. And other ways of being. Yeah. That I would never have put together. Yeah. Myself. Yeah. That's, that's a beautiful description. And that's what happens. And that's what we invite people to notice when, when we say, let your brain go wherever it needs to go, it's that those little connections between things that previously Mm, didn't feel connected.
But then when, when you make that connection during EMDR, it's like, well. Well, of course they're connected. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. But I, I would never, without this modality tool, whatever we are calling it, but without EMDR I would never have done been able to do that. Mm-hmm. Like, it was literally like just different neurons firing in my brain that would just connecting the dots for me.
And it was like, ah, it was like aha moments, I guess. Yes. In the midst of. Crying my eyes out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So we had just five sessions of EMDR together and we covered a range of topics, not just the breast cancer, but previous experiences. So those five sessions. and then. and then, you know, sometimes I feel like I do this really intensive work with people, and then I sort of, you know, encourage them back out into the world again. And then sometimes I'd never hear from them. Mm-hmm. and so can you tell us a little bit about the shifts that those five sessions made for you? Like what changed in, in, in real life when you left the hospital and went back to life?
Okay. Everything changed, if I'm honest, and I'm not exaggerating. those two weeks were literally life changing. you know, just like breast cancer changed my life in ways I didn't want. EMDR changed my life in every way. I did want. I came away feeling empowered. a sense of self was returning I was finding it like it, I guess it was a permission slip for me to be me, you know? Finally I felt like I could be me, that I was valid, my feelings and my memories were valid because, you know, sometimes I would go through, think of my childhood and did that really happen that way? Was it, am I crazy? Am I the only one that feels like this?
Mm-hmm. Um, it can be a very lonely journey to be inside your head and think it's just something you experienced. Um, so it was very validating. And, and I do remember, you know, we'd have a bit of a chat before the session started and at the end I would flowing out with all these very empowering messages about myself and, and it was like a strength was being built.
Like, I don't know, it's just. Self strength and it was the very beginning of self love and Oh, so beautiful. That makes me, that makes me tear up a little bit. Mm, that's gorgeous. Yeah, so it was really, it was really, I think for the first time in my life it felt, I started to feel like me, whoever me was, and I'm still on the journey, but, but that opened the portal to self-empowerment. It's the only way I can put it. That is so gorgeous. Yeah. I think, you know, so often during our childhood or our early adult years, you know, we grow away from who we actually are and our experiences and our traumas take us away from who we are. And I just so love that, that you, that you are coming back to a more empowered, more real, more.
Yeah. Focused more, more in tune yourself. Yeah, it's, and it feels good. It feels good because, you know, from a chaotic childhood was born a people pleaser and you know, the chameleon and I had so much repressed anger stored in my body. You know, I used to have thousands of conversations in my head, you know, having arguments with people, but I never said it out loud.
Mm. And that's debilitating. And that really did affect my health. let's explore that a little bit 'cause we were talking, before we turned the microphone on, we were talking about breast cancer. Mm. And about, about the mind body connection a little bit. So, I'm just interested to hear a bit more about that.
yeah, so I was living in fight or flight for a long time after breast cancer, especially when we moved. 'cause I was living in Shanghai when I went through that experience and once we moved back there, it was back to Australia. It was quite tricky. cause it didn't feel like home. And I think I lived in fight or flight for a very long time because I was just, I felt helpless because. I didn't know why I'd gotten, I had gotten breast cancer, you know, why that happened to me. And I think there was a part of me, um, you know, I was never in victim mode, but I was very angry. Mm-hmm. I was very angry that it happened to me. And there was a part so deep inside of me that was like, I need to know why, and I'm gonna keep searching until I find it.
And I did find it in a book, uh, in several books actually, and you know, I, when I read the words on the page, it just felt, I felt a resonance deep within my soul that I just couldn't ignore. It was, it was that aha moment. Oh, and what was beautiful about it is because. This is something I can do something about.
This is hope and empowerment. would you like me to share the book? Uh, I'd love you to share the book and, and also the realization, like what was that Aha. About the aha was about, the life that had been spent accommodating others. Mm-hmm. And not loving myself. It was self-sacrificing.
Because I never felt good enough. I never felt lovable, and I always felt that love was conditional. Mm-hmm. That there was something broken about me. There was something missing. Um, why, you know, I'm trying to find the right words. It's difficult. yeah, I just didn't feel worthy like. I didn't feel seen or heard.
Mm. Because that all stemmed from my childhood. So self-love was not even a thing. I mean, back in my generation, gen X, you know, we, we are known as the forgotten generation. And, um, boy, oh boy, I think we're coming back these days. I think we're on, we're on a movement. But yeah. you know, we really were quite neglected generation overall.
parents worked and. We were left to play outside all day. I mean, it was just, yeah, and, and we didn't have, I think, I think we didn't have the emotional intelligence that we are starting to develop now. That we, we understand more about attunement and what children need, and they need that validation.
They don't need to be told that, you know, you're in the way, be quiet. You know, go, go outside. Yeah. Yeah. I think. If I had to, to narrow it down concisely, it would be, I did not have a sense of self. Mm-hmm. And I feel like most of my adult life, I may have looked like an adult, but inside I often felt like a five-year-old child.
Mm. And, and you know, just that child that just wants to know if they're valid because they exist, you know, feelings. And it's not about blaming, but it's just. The different generations and you know, generational trauma is a thing and, yeah, the buck stops here, I guess. Yeah. Oh, that's so beautiful. I love that determination.
Like, and the recognition that there is intergenerational trauma that our parents acted the way they did because of their experiences. And, you know, the, the, I'm also Gen X, I'm 57 and you know, so my parents are getting up to. In their eighties now. So they did go through the war, you know, they, they were alive in that period of time and that, and the post-war period and so on.
And, regardless of where you were in the world, the war was. very important factor there. And, and also, you know, the generations before that, you know, so there, there is intergenerational trauma. Oh, absolutely. And I, I'm finding through podcasts and books now, that they're really discovering that the trauma actually starts in the womb in the third trimester and it really is passed down through. Through the DNA or genes. I'm not a scientist, but Yeah. Yeah. It's, and so when I talk about my childhood now, and I think this is something important that EMDR did give to me was detachment from those emotions. and once I got that detachment, I was able to look back at my childhood and breast cancer with a completely different objective view. And I was able to look at it just for what it was and not place or not live in a state where the emotion was consistently attached to that.
oh, that's beautiful. Yeah, that's exactly how I explain it to people. Like the emotion and the memory are so tied together. Mm-hmm. And EMDR just allows them to separate and then the emotion can be worked through and is gone, and the memory can be just what it is, and you can just look at it with that more intellectual kind of a hundred percent objectively too.
And then you start to understand and have compassion for even the people that hurt me. I have compassion for, because I see where it comes from and I understand it. I think EMDR was the start of, me growing up really becoming an adult. Gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah. And flourishing. And flourishing as an adult.
Yes. And so, So was there anything you didn't like about EMDR? Was any of it difficult or, or did you have favorite parts of it or the most surprising aspect of EMDR?
Oh, yes I did. I was thinking about this last night. Surprising aspects was the wow factor. It was like literally I went in for a session on one memory and I, at the end of the session it was like it was gone.
And I remember the first session looking at you and just saying. Wow, that was incredible. Like love that. And I actually remember walking out into the main common area at Cabrini and all the women were just, and they knew I'd had my first EMDR and I walked out and they all looked at me and said, oh my goodness, Sharon, what's happened? You look amazing. Like your whole face is brightened up. I'm like, I don't know, but I've, I love it. It feels good. Just, I love that. So another example that I think. And when we push, we push ourselves beyond what we resist and just put our intention into it and just go for it. Because what have you got to lose?
Yeah. It can't be worse than what you're feeling now. Yeah. Yeah. And that takes incredible bravery. It takes courage. Yeah. And you have that in space. Yeah, I guess I do. Yeah. I'm brave. You are brave. Yeah. Yeah. And where's that courage gonna take you next, do you think? Oh wow. Do you know what? This is my new, and uh, I have a friend that I hope she listens to this and, uh, she's gonna laugh when she hears this, but I'm actually saying, I don't know.
Mm-hmm. And that's okay. That's okay. I don't need to know. Yeah. And this could have, this was a epiphany I had in the last sort of few days. I'm like, I don't need to know because, you know, I've always spent my life needing to know. Mm-hmm. And I think that was my sense of control. Taking over because, you know, in childhood I tried to control my environment so that I would be safe, you know, and, uh, keep those rose colored glasses on.
'cause you know, they're really good too. Yeah. But yeah. But a denial is helpful. Yeah. A denial always works. Yeah. But you know, my eyes are wide open now, and I'm open to using my curiosity in such. Expansive ways. Now it's like, oh, what's over there? What's that? You know, because that's just, that's just who I am.
Yeah. I just, I love. you know, I found my artistic side and Oh, tell me about that. Oh, so I fell in love with crochet. Oh, crochet. Yeah. It actually stemmed from Cabrini actually. I remember we used to do art every afternoon. There was a group of us and one of the, ladies was crocheting. And I'm like, ah.
I just looked at it. I'm like, I want to do that. Um, so that was the first spark. And then I came out and befriended a beautiful lady, outside of Cabrini, and she is like a very good crochet and she showed me some of her things. I'm like, I really wanna do that. So I've dedicated a lot of the last sort of nine, 10 months into crochet and, uh, it has changed my life.
I can't believe, you know, this hobby that people call, you know, grandma's hobby or whatever. Mm-hmm. Um, honestly, has. Given me so much and not just making beautiful things, but it's helped me to stay present, to stay conscious to be a beginner at something gorgeous, to learn how to make a mistake and not beat myself up over it.
No, it's just to overcome that perfectionism, whatever was left of it. I mean, it's, there's always a little bit there, but, yeah, it just has to, it continues to teach me every day. What I'm capable of. And it's just stitches. But they're very powerful. Very powerful. So there's, there's an element of that somatic thing.
You've got the wool in your hands. You're creating something tangible with your hands. Yes. Something 3D and, yeah. You know, and I love, I know this about me, I love to build, I love to make things. So what crochet does is I have this ball of wool and then. I've made something out of it. It's beautiful. And the best of all now is, you know, I get to gift it to people now I get to give it, give my love to them.
Oh, that's so gorgeous. So they have something beautiful to look at. Yeah, because most of my crochet has been flowers, crochet flowers. You've shown me a couple of pictures and they are stunning. Absolutely stunning. Yeah. It just brings me so much joy and. So what the future holds? I don't know. I have a lot of passion for women. I have a lot of passion around breast cancer, and the women who are experiencing that, and I just have a lot of love to give. And I remember after EMDR, one of the most profound things, actually, this just literally popped into my head. I remember walking into the main area, and I had a feeling of love in my heart that I have never felt in my life.
It was like my heart just expanded. Mm. And I, you know, people say, oh, feel the love in your heart, but I, I don't think I was so, I think I was so detached for so, so long that, but I, I got that feeling in Cabrini and it felt really good and. I know this is kind of, it's starting to make me tear up because I do remember that feeling and it, I want everyone to feel that because there's so much craziness going on in the world today, and the more we can come together in community and hold each other's hands.
We can heal, we can be better, we can experience joy. We are here to experience joy and to live life from us, and we are here. If I could give one message to the world, please love yourself. It's the foundation you need to get through life. 'cause when you love yourself, loving others gets to be a lot easier.
Oh, Sharon, that, that's just so beautiful. Thank you. I can only speak from my heart. Oh. But it was, that's just such a lovely way, I think, maybe to end the podcast. So that's such a beautiful message and um, and I'm so proud of you and I'm so, thank you, pleased for you that. that you've been able to do that Oh, and that you've been able to shed the trauma and then reveal this enormous fountain of love that you have Oh.
And be able to experience that and, and share it with other people. That's just really special and gorgeous. Thank you. Oh, I'm so thankful. For your gift, your gift and your talent. Because I think what you're doing is, and I think I said this to you, you are doing exactly what you should be doing 'cause you're very good at it.
But I'm also, you know, happy to do this because I feel like if there's one person out there sitting on the fence, if there's a woman out there who just feels she, she can't, she doesn't know what to do, Here's her permission slip. Please just get brave and do it because it'll change your life.
EMDR changed my life and, I would not hesitate to come back to it if I need to in the future. Beautiful. Thank you, Sharon. You're very welcome. Thank you.
